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God Opts Destroying Universe If Situation Proceeds Towards Negative Day By Day

#31
(04-15-2017, 12:44 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Penance and punishment are not pre-requisites for potential progress within the parameters of spiritual philosophy


Rather, rehabilitation and rendering of restitution, than referral for retribution

I notice not a nuance of nihilism [the belief that there is no meaning or purpose in existence] in my numerous notes and narrations. 

Aspirationally, a hint of hope for humanity, here and hereafter.



Love and Light

So do you think there is cause and effect?

Do you think actions cause reactions?

Do you think that the things of GOD will continually mingle with that which is not aligned with the will of GOD?

In more evolutionary terms; do you feel that man in his error will be permitted to destroy itself and it's habitat?

You mentioned rehabilitation. So you fo grasp that there is a difference in being for creation and against it.

You believe there to be a universal reconsiliation of sorts? I do too, if so, but a change must take place too I think. A change from greed to giving. A change from wanting for self to wanting for the sake of others.

I didn't mean to offend exactly; but if there is no consiquince then there is no potential.

peace friend

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#32
Q 1. Yes
Q 2. Yes
Q 3. Yes, but eternity is a long time
Q 4. No, because I see an Angelic hierarchy overseeing the evolution of Planet and Race. Also, our habitat is but one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in one universe. Sometimes it is not easy to contextualise the nature and manner of our existence.
Q 5. Yes, indeed
Q 6. I am in complete agreement. The real question is - how shall such changes be effected, and by whom?
Item 7. No offence taken I assure you. I see the consequence and the potential being dealt with in kamaloka.

Love and Light, friend.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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#33
(04-15-2017, 10:22 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Q 1. Yes
Q 2. Yes
Q 3. Yes, but eternity is a long time
Q 4. No, because I see an Angelic hierarchy overseeing the evolution of Planet and Race. Also, our habitat is but one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in one universe. Sometimes it is not easy to contextualise the nature and manner of our existence.
Q 5. Yes, indeed
Q 6. I am in complete agreement. The real question is - how shall such changes be effected, and by whom?
Item 7. No offence taken I assure you. I see the consequence and the potential being dealt with in kamaloka.

Love and Light, friend.

In kamaloka? Like the spiritual realm or plane? Seems like a different way to describe heaven or hell or the afterlife or returning to ones own source. I don't really believe in a conscious afterlife either, but how does that equate to potential and consequence for you?

peace friend; really. I feel ashamed for my shortness and borderline arrogance towards you....My elder in many ways.

I honestly believe the variables within our belief are simply separate ways to describe the same thing. I do not believe in hell per say, but I do believe we will return home and that the desires of our heart that motivate us to action are synonymous with our source/ origin, or home.

I'm undecided on perpetual reincarnation, and find the inquiry there of a fruitless task or meandering, as though I don't exactly follow the precept; I do try to remember to live for each day.

Again, humbly;
peace

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#34
We have moved away from the original thread context. For my reply please visit thread AFTERLIFE, KAMALOKA AND REINCARNATION.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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#35
(04-16-2017, 06:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:
(04-15-2017, 10:22 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Q 1. Yes
Q 2. Yes
Q 3. Yes, but eternity is a long time
Q 4. No, because I see an Angelic hierarchy overseeing the evolution of Planet and Race. Also, our habitat is but one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in one universe. Sometimes it is not easy to contextualise the nature and manner of our existence.
Q 5. Yes, indeed
Q 6. I am in complete agreement. The real question is - how shall such changes be effected, and by whom?
Item 7. No offence taken I assure you. I see the consequence and the potential being dealt with in kamaloka.

Love and Light, friend.

In kamaloka? Like the spiritual realm or plane? Seems like a different way to describe heaven or hell or the afterlife or returning to ones own source. I don't really believe in a conscious afterlife either, but how does that equate to potential and consequence for you?

peace friend; really. I feel ashamed for my shortness and borderline arrogance towards you....My elder in many ways.

I honestly believe the variables within our belief are simply separate ways to describe the same thing. I do not believe in hell per say, but I do believe we will return home and that the desires of our heart that motivate us to action are synonymous with our source/ origin, or home.

I'm undecided on perpetual reincarnation, and find the inquiry there of a fruitless task or meandering, as though I don't exactly follow the precept; I do try to remember to live for each day.

Again, humbly;
peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

you doing well Popsthebuilder, keep it up. we know very little in this realm, we learn the difference between true and false, to move beyond religion take lot of courage and letting go of ego, and spiritual ego especially is scary to leg go of because of are programming. For this topic, i say we can't make one hair on are head white or black, to think we have so much control is ego, best is to surrender ego because of love for the Creator
Light, Life and Love
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#36
(04-16-2017, 05:33 PM)Gerhard Botha Wrote:
(04-16-2017, 06:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:
(04-15-2017, 10:22 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Q 1. Yes
Q 2. Yes
Q 3. Yes, but eternity is a long time
Q 4. No, because I see an Angelic hierarchy overseeing the evolution of Planet and Race. Also, our habitat is but one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in one universe. Sometimes it is not easy to contextualise the nature and manner of our existence.
Q 5. Yes, indeed
Q 6. I am in complete agreement. The real question is - how shall such changes be effected, and by whom?
Item 7. No offence taken I assure you. I see the consequence and the potential being dealt with in kamaloka.

Love and Light, friend.

In kamaloka? Like the spiritual realm or plane? Seems like a different way to describe heaven or hell or the afterlife or returning to ones own source. I don't really believe in a conscious afterlife either, but how does that equate to potential and consequence for you?

peace friend; really. I feel ashamed for my shortness and borderline arrogance towards you....My elder in many ways.

I honestly believe the variables within our belief are simply separate ways to describe the same thing. I do not believe in hell per say, but I do believe we will return home and that the desires of our heart that motivate us to action are synonymous with our source/ origin, or home.

I'm undecided on perpetual reincarnation, and find the inquiry there of a fruitless task or meandering, as though I don't exactly follow the precept; I do try to remember to live for each day.

Again, humbly;
peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

you doing well Popsthebuilder, keep it up. we know very little in this realm, we learn the difference between true and false, to move beyond religion take lot of courage and letting go of ego, and spiritual ego especially is scary to leg go of because of are programming. For this topic, i say we can't make one hair on are head white or black, to think we have so much control is ego, best is to surrender ego because of love for the Creator
Thank you kindly sir.

I will not stop. I will not fold. I will not turn back. My doubt with regards to my own potential will not wholly cut me off from the truth of the will of the One Creator GOD, or how it relates to me.

peace friend

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#37
(04-15-2017, 01:51 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Similarly, when you love God you must be aware of form of God,

you must be aware of form of God,
This point of inapplicability of worldly logic in God is the reason to say that God is unimaginable, the basis being absence of spatial dimensions in God. 
Oh, but how do I become aware of the form of God. You say I must not use my imagination. Surely to apply the word 'form' indicates a spatial dimension, does it not?

Very good. I really appreciate your point.

When God wants to give His experience to the human beings, He cannot follow the irrational or unimaginable ways, in which case, He cannot be experienced. The purpose fails. Therefore, the unimaginable God adopts rational procedures and enters rational medium to give experience to human beings. God is unimaginable but His experience should be imaginable. For this purpose He enters reasonable medium i.e., human body that can be seen and touched. Only the human body can live with us (Emmanuel) and we can clarify our doubts only with the human body.



Gita says that the God is not modified into the human body (Avyaktam Vyakti Mapannam…). The person did not become the shirt but He wears the shirt as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanum…). The Lord wears the human body and does not become the human body. If you touch the shirt present on His body you are getting the experience of the inner body. Similarly the inner God gives His experience through the external body.
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#38
(04-15-2017, 08:18 PM)krya Wrote: First of all, there is no God destroying the universe for our mistakes. There are only us  humans to do such a foolish thing. The universe is not stupid, it is alive and it knows how to deal with criminals. Let the law of reincarnation and karma do their job.

There is no way to completely separate God from its creation, since creation is a secretion, an extension of God itself.
If we can't see the beauty and the wisdom of God (the unknown) through its creation, how can we know and appreciate God (which we cannot see, and comprehend).


Love and light.

God is the base of the world
 
Even though God is the base of the world, the world does not touch Him as the man touches the cot. It is possible in the case of a daydreamer. A city imagined by him exists in him and he is the base for that city. Let the city and the people in that city burn. The daydreamer is not burnt.
 
Like this the world is based on God but the changes in the world cannot affect. Either the changes in the inert objects or the changes in the human beings cannot affect God. Hence, any inert object or any human being (except incarnation) can neither be God nor does God exist in them. They are based on the God and they are not present in the God also.

The Lord is pervading in the human body of the human incarnation. The Lord is also pervading the entire world, which consists of five elements and individual souls. But the Lord is pervading allover the Universe as the substratum. The Lord is not in universe. The Lord is pervading all over the human body of Krishna as the current pervades the wire. The wire gives shock wherever it is touched. Similarly, jeevatma is also pervading allover the human body. This is called abhivyapaka saptami vibhakti in Sanskrit grammar. When we say that the Lord is in the universe, it is called aupasleshika saptami vibhakti.
 
The example for this is that a man is in the shirt. The man is the base of the shirt and is not in the threads of the shirt. When you touch the shirt, you are not touching the man. If the man leaves the shirt, the shirt collapses. Thus there are two sentences. 1) A man is in the shirt 2) The current is in the wire. Both the sentences look similar but the concepts are different. People who do not have the knowledge of Sastras take the same meaning for both the sentences. They think that the Lord is present in every object and in every living being in this world.
 
Veda says that the Lord is not present in any object or any living being in this world (Neti Neti). If there no is second substance, how the Lord will have the entertainment? Veda says that the Lord created the second substance for His entertainment (Ekaki naramate, Sadviteeyam). But, how the second substance came from the Lord who is only one substance? This is beyond your understanding. Things exist even if you do not understand. That is the secret of the creation. Brahma jnana is the knowledge of the Lord that is to understand that you cannot understand the Lord and His actions (Yasyamatam tasyamatam).
 
Gita says the same (Mamtuveda nakaschana). If you say that you cannot accept that which you cannot understand, you can never understand the Lord and His actions. The Lord lifted the mountain by His finger. You have seen this. But you could not understand this. The miracles prove that there is something, which you cannot understand. Veda says this point (Asteetyevopalabdhavyah). Therefore the Lord created a second substance, which is giving Him the entertainment. Such second substance is the creation, which is a modification of His power called ‘Maya’.
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#39
(04-18-2017, 09:03 PM)dattaswami Wrote:
(04-15-2017, 08:18 PM)krya Wrote: First of all, there is no God destroying the universe for our mistakes. There are only us  humans to do such a foolish thing. The universe is not stupid, it is alive and it knows how to deal with criminals. Let the law of reincarnation and karma do their job.

There is no way to completely separate God from its creation, since creation is a secretion, an extension of God itself.
If we can't see the beauty and the wisdom of God (the unknown) through its creation, how can we know and appreciate God (which we cannot see, and comprehend).


Love and light.

God is the base of the world
 
Even though God is the base of the world, the world does not touch Him as the man touches the cot. It is possible in the case of a daydreamer. A city imagined by him exists in him and he is the base for that city. Let the city and the people in that city burn. The daydreamer is not burnt.
 
Like this the world is based on God but the changes in the world cannot affect. Either the changes in the inert objects or the changes in the human beings cannot affect God. Hence, any inert object or any human being (except incarnation) can neither be God nor does God exist in them. They are based on the God and they are not present in the God also.

The Lord is pervading in the human body of the human incarnation. The Lord is also pervading the entire world, which consists of five elements and individual souls. But the Lord is pervading allover the Universe as the substratum. The Lord is not in universe. The Lord is pervading all over the human body of Krishna as the current pervades the wire. The wire gives shock wherever it is touched. Similarly, jeevatma is also pervading allover the human body. This is called abhivyapaka saptami vibhakti in Sanskrit grammar. When we say that the Lord is in the universe, it is called aupasleshika saptami vibhakti.
 
The example for this is that a man is in the shirt. The man is the base of the shirt and is not in the threads of the shirt. When you touch the shirt, you are not touching the man. If the man leaves the shirt, the shirt collapses. Thus there are two sentences. 1) A man is in the shirt 2) The current is in the wire. Both the sentences look similar but the concepts are different. People who do not have the knowledge of Sastras take the same meaning for both the sentences. They think that the Lord is present in every object and in every living being in this world.
 
Veda says that the Lord is not present in any object or any living being in this world (Neti Neti). If there no is second substance, how the Lord will have the entertainment? Veda says that the Lord created the second substance for His entertainment (Ekaki naramate, Sadviteeyam). But, how the second substance came from the Lord who is only one substance? This is beyond your understanding. Things exist even if you do not understand. That is the secret of the creation. Brahma jnana is the knowledge of the Lord that is to understand that you cannot understand the Lord and His actions (Yasyamatam tasyamatam).
 
Gita says the same (Mamtuveda nakaschana). If you say that you cannot accept that which you cannot understand, you can never understand the Lord and His actions. The Lord lifted the mountain by His finger. You have seen this. But you could not understand this. The miracles prove that there is something, which you cannot understand. Veda says this point (Asteetyevopalabdhavyah). Therefore the Lord created a second substance, which is giving Him the entertainment. Such second substance is the creation, which is a modification of His power called ‘Maya’.

dattaswami as i see it, this is a old explanation that is used in many religions, it the same as the computer and the plug and the electricity, we can not understand God with the mind, because He is outside it, we can go around in this circle over and over and over.

while we are mislead we do not know it, we can only see it when we came out of it, but at the end we will still reap the fruit of our own souls, it will not help as to say we were mislead, even if we get forgiveness we will still have only the reward of are own soul

i was myself caught up in religion, and understand. I do not have the answers for you, but i can share my experience, and you can take what you want and leave what you want.

but if i only give you scripture and religions, you will never know my souls journey, and i will not know yours
Light, Life and Love
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#40
(04-18-2017, 10:39 PM)Gerhard Botha Wrote: but if i only give you scripture and religions, you will never know my souls journey, and i will not know yours

Authority in Spiritual Concepts ...

1) To learn philosophy, the world gives the real picture. Books may contain faulty knowledge, but the world contains only the truth. To know whether the concept in the book is right or not you must refer to the world. Any concept in the scripture should be discussed with logic and finally approved only through its experience in the world. So the purest love can be seen in the world. Suppose somebody loves and serves you without aspiring anything in return and his love is pure by all your tests, you imagine how much you are pleased! You will do anything for him. It applies to God also. If you serve Him without aspiring anything in return from Him and if your pure love passes all His severe tests, He will do anything for your sake. Love is proved only through service. Mere words and feelings are of no use. Service can be associated with words and feelings, like a plate of rice is associated with curry and pickles.

2) An employee does service for the whole month and he does not have to put in a formal request to the government to give his monthly salary. The salary is put into his account automatically. He does not beg for his salary by singing songs and weeping. Similarly, Hanuman participated in the service of Lord Rama in human form and got the fruit of His service, which was the post of the future creator of the Universe. He did not sing bhajans, chant hymns, meditate or shed tears etc., for the fruit. Therefore what is the use of these things without the service? An elephant is fed with sugar cane in a dignified way. The elephant does a lot of work in carrying big logs etc.

A dog does not do any service and it begs for food by wagging its tail, by crying, by falling at the feet of people but it is not given food or at the most it is given leftovers. Therefore the knowledge and devotion should lead to service, which are like the degrees acquired by you. Merely for your degree, no salary will be given. With the help of the degree you have to get a job and do service for which alone you can get the salary. The degrees will only help you to get a job but they cannot give you the salary directly. With the help of knowledge you can recognize the human incarnation. With the help of devotion you will come near Him and become dear to Him so that you can participate in His service. You get the fruit for your service and not for your knowledge and devotion.

Conclusion:

It is always great to give God that which you cannot give to anybody. What is the greatness in giving that which you can give to anyone? People easily give words and mind and there is no greatness in sacrificing such things. It is very difficult to sacrifice the fruit of work (money). Therefore the greatness lies in sacrificing work or the fruit of work. The Gita emphasized on Karma Phala Tyaga in view of the nearing Kali Yuga. Soon after the Mahabharata war, Kali entered. Since the Lord knows that in the Kali age, money, which is the fruit of the work, is going to be the topmost item, He emphasized the sacrifice of money (Karma Phala Tyaga) everywhere in the Gita.
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