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Near Death Experiences

#1
A number of cases of rebirth have been reported are still being reported all over the world. I have even seen two to three page long reports of such incidents published in English newspapers. The instances clearly establish the concept of rebirth.

Human beings born in far away places speak of intricate details of their previous birth, which on verification, are found to be exactly correct. It would be better for you to find that report because reading the detailed report makes things crystal clear. A few years ago, the news of a case of rebirth was published on the front-page of the Eenadu Telugu newspaper. A small girl of four to five years, born in the city of Khammam, started talking about her previous birth. She even described details about her house in the previous birth, which was located about 150 km in the city of Tenali. Finally, she was taken to the house described by her in Tenali, and all the details were found to be accurate. The child gave exact details of all the jewelry worn by her in the previous birth. She even described all her properties and children in the previous birth. A photograph was published on the front page in the newspaper in which the adult daughter of the past birth, was seen holding her reborn mother in her arms. The headline read “Daughter holding her mother in her arms!”

These examples are very very concrete. The verified details are clearly related to the physical world and there is no obscure point anywhere. Some people try to reject such examples as mere personal experiences of certain individuals. They try to explain away such cases as the mental imaginations or psychological disorders of those individuals. But these cases cannot be mere imaginations since they involve facts from the practical world, which are fully verified. We can draw clear philosophical conclusions from such genuine cases of rebirth just as we can draw clear scientific conclusions from experiments conducted in a laboratory.

Near-Death Experiences Yield Uncertain Conclusions

The concept of the individual soul leaving the physical body during death is a prerequisite for the rebirth of the soul. So, when clear-cut evidence of rebirth exists in the form of practically-verified cases of rebirth, the concept of the soul leaving the physical body during death is automatically established. Yet, in the context of near-death experiences, researchers make certain doubtful conclusions based on the near-death experiences alone. When clear practical examples of rebirth are available, why should the doubtful observations and conclusions related to near-death experiences be considered? Since the brain of the person is not in a good and stable condition during these near-death experiences, the experiences of the person can always be doubted.
If we limit ourselves only to these near-death experiences, it may not be possible to disprove the doubts using mere logic since concrete facts might not be available. The researchers discussing the near-death experiences and drawing doubtful conclusions appears quite odd to Me.

They are like the person who has physically seen an elephant clearly with his own eyes in this very physical world but who still doubts whether the animal that just walked away was an elephant or not. Later, upon seeing the footprints of the elephant on the path, he finally decides that the animal was indeed an elephant (yathā gajo neti samakṣarūpe…—Kālidāsa)! At least this person finally concluded that he had seen an elephant. But these researchers are still not able to reach a conclusion! They are limiting themselves only to these imaginary ideas based on the near-death experiences. As long as a person limits himself to his mental doubt or debate of whether or not the animal is an elephant, without considering concrete evidence, he can never reach a definite conclusion. He must accept the concrete evidence of physically seeing the elephant.

Experience based on correct perception alone can be the authority. The experience of a person with a defect in his perception cannot be taken as the authority. Śankara has stated that a person having a defective eyesight which causes him to see two moons in the sky, cannot be taken as the authority even though experience is treated as the final authority (Netrataimirikadośasya dvicandradarśanavat). I am not saying that the reported experiences of those patients at the time of death are wrong. Their experiences are certainly in agreement with the independently-established concept of rebirth. What I am saying is that there is no need to draw conclusions only based on the doubtful near-death experiences, when concrete examples that are verified through practical experience are available separately. It would be better for these researchers to shift to the study of the concrete incidents of rebirth and draw clear conclusions.

Miracles by Human Incarnations as Evidence

Apart from these supernatural phenomena, we can also consider the miracles performed by Human Incarnations. Audio-visual recordings of miracles performed by the recent Human Incarnation of God Datta called Shri Satya Sai Baba, exist today as a practical reference. They too can be taken as the concrete basis for drawing conclusions related to unverified hypotheses and doubts. The conclusions drawn by the researchers can be clearly verified by analyzing the clear concrete examples of rebirth along with supporting concrete evidence in the form of the miracles performed by Human Incarnations.

About Consciousness Outside the Body

The conclusions such as consciousness extends outside the human being or that consciousness causes materialization, must be carefully examined. At the death time, the consciousness (awareness), which so far was confined to the body, leaves the body and goes outside. Hence, some people report these out-of-body experiences. It means that the awareness was not already existing outside the body. It certainly does not mean that the whole world is pervaded by awareness. If the awareness that leaves the body had an independent isolated existence, we would have found awareness in space just as we find electromagnetic radiation moving independently in space. Even though inert energy has an independent existence and pervades all over the world, its specific work-form called awareness is not all-pervading. The mud out of which a mud-pot is made, also exists spread-out everywhere on earth. But it does not mean that the mud-pot extends all over the earth! The Advaitins say that this entire world is made of awareness alone.
This is not correct because you have already made a basic distinction between an inert item and a non-inert item. The non-inert item or awareness, which is only observed in living animals, is a specific work-form of inert energy generated in a special functioning device called as the nervous system. Let us call this awareness as relative-awareness since it is a part of this world, which is relatively true. Since awareness does not have an independent existence, it requires a container like the physical body. The positive proof (anvaya) for this is that awareness exists only in a physical body. The negative way of proving the same (vyatireka) is that awareness does not exist in empty space; or in other words, awareness does not exist in the absence of the physical body. Hence, the awareness that leaves the physical body must be leaving in an invisible energetic body, which acts as its container.

The Existence of Heaven and Hell

In rebirth cases, a time-gap is observed between the date that a person dies and the date when the same soul takes a new birth. It means that the soul, along with its energetic body, must be spending that time somewhere in space. There are also several near-death experiences in which the person after being revived, reports that two energetic forms had dragged his or her soul out of the body and had taken the soul to the upper energetic world called hell. These experiences are also true even though near-death experiences generally remain doubtful as explained earlier. The only reliable authority for the existence of hell and heaven is the preaching of the Human Incarnation of God.

Miraculous materializations

Human Incarnations perform miracles like the materialization of objects at will out of empty space. Such materialization-miracles cannot be explained scientifically by saying that the human will or awareness, being inert energy essentially, gets converted into matter based on the principle of conversion of energy into matter. Although the conversion of energy into matter is generally agreeable, it cannot explain this miracle. We find that only a specific human being, who is known to be an Incarnation of God can do this miracle. Ordinary human beings are unable to perform it. It indicates that there must be a difference between the awareness of an ordinary human being and that of a Human Incarnation of God. The relative-awareness of a human being requires basic inert energy along with a material nervous system.

The Human Incarnation also possesses that relative-awareness but His awareness must have some additional unimaginable factor, which allows Him to perform the miracle of materialization at will. Due to the presence of that additional unimaginable factor, we can say that the relative-awareness of the Human Incarnation becomes unimaginable. The Incarnation’s awareness is, therefore, an unimaginable awareness. It is acceptable to call that additional unimaginable factor as unimaginable awareness since no matter how many unimaginable items we define, they all ultimately become one. When an item is basically said to be unimaginable, it is meaningless to say whether it is one or two. If you can count two different unimaginable items, i.e. they are countable; then they are not unimaginable at all!
Thus, the conclusion is that the unimaginable awareness alone can be the cause of the miracle; not the relative-awareness existing in every human being. The Human Incarnation, who possesses that unimaginable factor, performs miracles which are beyond the capacity of human beings. The mechanism or power behind the miracles is also beyond our imagination. The same Human Incarnation possessing that unimaginable factor also reveals hidden concepts such as heaven and hell, which are beyond the capacity of our senses and intellect to know independently. Hence, the revelation by the Human Incarnation inevitably has to be treated as the final authority for knowing the existence of the invisible heaven and hell, which exist somewhere in space.

Where does the soul go first? Heaven or hell?

Every soul does good deeds as well as sins. After death, the soul has to enjoy the fruits of both in heaven and hell respectively. Between the soul’s merit and sin, the soul is first sent to enjoy the lesser of the two. In the Mahābhārata, Dharma Rāja found that the evil Kauravas, who had earned very little merit in their lives on earth, had gone to heaven. They were enjoying that little merit in heaven for a short while before being sent to hell for a very long time. On the other hand, the righteous Pāṇḍavas, who were the brothers of Dharma Rāja, were first sent to hell since their sins were few. After suffering in hell for a short while, they would be sent to heaven to enjoy for a long time.
Revelation is the authority for the unimaginable domain

The concept of the existence of the unimaginable domain is established through unimaginable miracles, which are practically experienced. The Human Incarnation possessing that unimaginable power must then be taken as the final authority for knowing at least those concepts that are related to the unimaginable domain. His revelation must be kept above science, which is the study of the imaginable domain (creation) alone. Science can be considered as the true authority in the imaginable domain due to its perfect analysis that follows imaginable logic and experience. But just because it has this merit, there is no way it can enter unimaginable domain by any way.

Soul and individual soul

Actually, the basic soul or Ātman is the essential inert energy that gets converted into awareness in the functioning nervous system. The generated awareness is called the individual soul or jīva. The basic soul is like mud and the individual soul is like the pot made out of the mud. The soul exists in the individual soul in a basic sense and hence, the individual soul can loosely be called as the soul. But there is a clear distinction between the two. You can fetch water in a mud pot, but you cannot fetch water with just a lump of mud. Mud can be said to pervade all over the earth qualitatively. But the pot having a limited round shape does not extend all over the earth. When we call the mud-pot as mud or a golden ornament as gold, it is said only in an approximate sense.
God controls the unimaginable and imaginable domains

In fact, the unimaginable God created the even imaginable domain and He completely controls it at all times. Both the imaginable domain and the unimaginable domain are His properties. He has given the imaginable domain to the souls, keeping the unimaginable domain with Himself. Even science was developed by souls in creation by the blessing of God. Science only studies the imaginable domain and the credit for developing the field is given to the souls. Science is perfect as far as the imaginable domain or creation is concerned. But it can never enter the unimaginable domain.

It is the unimaginable domain or the unimaginable power of God which basically controls all the principles of science. God proves this by miracles, which are the violations of the principles of established science. Hence, we should take God as the authority on the unimaginable concepts at least. The Human Incarnation is also an item of the imaginable domain, but He exhibits unimaginable miracles since the unimaginable God has merged with that selected imaginable human being. If the unimaginable God were to enter into an unimaginable medium It would not be visible to human beings even to exhibit unimaginable miracles. The unimaginable power or unimaginable God is the Controller whereas the imaginable power and the principles, which are known as science, are controlled by God. They are subordinate to God. Subordinate does not mean that they are wrong. It only means that these scientific principles are under the control of some superpower. Hence, science is correct but it is subordinate to God since it is the study of the subordinate domain which is the imaginable domain.

The propagation of spiritual knowledge, which is often done by God through Human Incarnations, is not done because God desires fame in the world. The purpose is to bring devotion along with fear in the minds of human beings so that sins are controlled as far as possible and society remains balanced. The unimaginable miracles exhibited by God are also for the same purpose, which is to establish control in society. Since miracles are practically seen and experienced, they form the most concrete evidence for the existence of the unimaginable God. Science too ultimately relies on the same authority of perception.


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Universal Spirituality for World Peace
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  • מ שشem:dru:vid:::
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#2
Hello dattaswami
Please put the text you copied from another website under quotes.
Thanks
"You mess with me, I lighten you"
Awesome Admin
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#3
Hello Dattaswami,
The story of the incident in Khammam - Tenali is one I first heard many decades ago and is what first led to my interest in the ideas of multiple lifetimes. More recently, my own NDEs involving clinical deaths and revivals (for details see my earlier posts) reinforced this idea for me.
I explain more of what this has led to, in terms of my own views, in the thread, SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT STOP GOING TRU MY MIND.
I FIND ESPECIALLY INTERESTING, THE CONCEPT THAT THE MIND, BEING ABSTRACT, IS IN FACT OUR SPIRIT LINK TO OTHER VIBRATORY DIMENSIONS, INCLUDING THE DIVINE.
I note that you have not yet visited this thread and I invite you to do so as it might help you to a further understanding of how our cultural differences and historical backgrounds do not need to accentuate, to the point of disputation, our separate spiritual pathways - and mutually shared destinies. 
After all, this multiple lifetime concept implies the idea that you and I might have met before - at the Pearly Gates in confrontation with St Peter and God. Perhaps more than once.
NOW WOULDN'T THAT BE SOMETHING!!!

Let Love and Light Be.
MBS
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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  • Skytiger
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#4
Referring again to your post 10.06.2019, in which you make reference to several aspects of NDEs and related matters.

I assume, and I ask you to correct me if I am in error,  that the source or sources which you paraphrase and from which you quote, are originally in the Aramaic or Sanskritt or Urdu languages. The problem of Babel. It appears to me that the difficulty of making direct translation to the excellent English in which you write, may easily give rise to potential misunderstanding and confusion. This I find particularly relevant in your use of the terms 'heaven' and 'hell', though there are others.  
An example:-

If the awareness that leaves the body had an independent existence, we would have found awareness in space just as we find electromagnetic radiation moving independently in space.

The "awareness" to which you refer is, to me, the Higher Self aspect of the spiritual entity that occupies the human or physical vessel. At the time of NDE, the Lower Self aspect, normally confined to the vessel, TEMPORARILY migrates to another dimension where it is in communication with the Higher Self. This migration is probably only momentary in human terms but, as I have expressed elsewhere Time and the passing of time is an illusion extant in our third dimensional frame of existence. The question 'to where does the LSA migrate' and the reference to 'space' indicate a confinement to this third dimensional aspect of this created universe. My understanding is that the LSA and HSA have trans-dimensional or inter-dimensional capabilities enabling there to be mutual intercommunication during a given lifetime. Thus, at the time of NDE, there is communication in a dimensional status that is beyond the 'space' to which you refer.

Another example:- 

Sankara  has stated that a person having a defective eyesight which causes him to see two moons in the sky cannot be taken as the authority even though experience is treated as the final authority (Netrataimirikadosasyadvicandradarsanavat)

Who is to say which is the final authority, the one who experiences 'seeing' one moon, or the one who experiences 'seeing' two moons? Each condition is an undeniable experiential reality to the observer.

In my opinion, it is the seeking and searching which is our current reality. Final authority is for another space/time.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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#5
I was told by my Daddy that when I though I was seeing 2 moons, I was actually seeing our moon and a neighboring planet.
I think he said the planet was Venus.
However he told me this soooooo many years ago, it may have been another planet.
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#6
(10-07-2019, 08:48 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Hello Dattaswami,
I explain more of what this has led to, in terms of my own views, in the thread, SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT STOP GOING TRU MY MIND.
I FIND ESPECIALLY INTERESTING, THE CONCEPT THAT THE MIND, BEING ABSTRACT, IS IN FACT OUR SPIRIT LINK TO OTHER VIBRATORY DIMENSIONS, INCLUDING THE DIVINE.
I note that you have not yet visited this thread and I invite you to do so as it might help you to a further understanding of how our cultural differences and historical backgrounds do not need to accentuate, to the point of disputation, our separate spiritual pathways - and mutually shared destinies. 
After all, this multiple lifetime concept implies the idea that you and I might have met before - at the Pearly Gates in confrontation with St Peter and God. Perhaps more than once.
NOW WOULDN'T THAT BE SOMETHING!!!

Let Love and Light Be.
MBS


please provide me the link of your thread.

regards
surya (disciple of Shri Datta Swami)
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#7
Using Search panel top right home page enter SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT QUIT GOING TRU MY MIND.
LOVE AND LIGHT
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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