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#11
Once upon a time, a christian and a Muslim died and found themselves in front of God for judgement before being reincarnated on earth. Smile

The Christian wasn't happy and said to God "Father, I don't understand, what is this Muslim guy doing here in paradise? You said: only will be saved those who know you and your son Jesus Christ, but they have Mohamed and Allah ".

The Muslim also complained and said "God father, This christian guy should have gone to hell because he thinks that Jesus the only way to salvation. Islam is the only real religion which serves you right and which is loyal to you".

Then God said : My children, you are both so stupid, like dumb dumb. Now I'm sending you back on earth to learn more. But this time, you Muslim will be Christian, and you Christian will become Muslim. Good luck and see you again soon. Smile
A meditation is a trip to the space between the sun and earth. Where there is No days no nights, no noise, no rain, no wind, no earth force of attraction, but just peace, just light, just silence, just freedom. Would you Join me in this trip?

M. Krya
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#12
Indeed.
Until we learn to love each other, regardless of religion, we will be back on Mother Earth as long as it takes to realize we are ALL children of Creator, no matter what we call Him/Her.
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#13
What a subject we are into here.  Religion is simply a classroom. 

My view/understanding which, I readily accept, is debatable:

No man requires, of necessity, to follow a 'religion.' Each one can, if he awakes to the true nature of his 'being', find his own way through the confusion of life, simply by searching within his own MIND. By all means read, listen, analyse, VERIFY.

Speaking only for myself, this is where I have got to, so far.

One God - the ultimate supreme consciousness; a concept beyond human comprehension. (Well, beyond mine in this life anyway)

It may be that what some call gods (I use lower case to differentiate) are what I term angels. 
Angels are delegated aspects of the supreme consciousness, operating at various vibratory or dimensional levels of existence. These angels are charged by the supreme being with the management and oversight of their particular level of existence. (A concept which seems well accepted in the ashrams and among the holy men of the Indian sub-continent, as well as elsewhere in oriental religious philosophy, against which western religions are but a recent derivation. (See LAW OF LIFE BOOKS I & II by A D LUK)

Within each of the levels, there probably exist multiple universes, some of which may or may not support galaxies of celestial bodies. 
Within the multiple galaxies there may well be solar systems with auxilliary planets which in turn may support life-like beings, (spirit/soul) each being a delegated part of the whole, which is the supreme consciousness. (and each, in Skytiger's terminology, in an appropriate classroom for learning, comparable to what we humans experience on planet earth within the Milky Way Galaxy, and wherein we may well, in our turn, spend lifetimes)

How this cycle (perhaps in a circular time frame) originated or how it may or may not evolve, is something beyond the intellectual reasoning capability of the "human" mind in the current evolutionary state of human comprehension in planet earth's third dimensional status. (vide eternity)

For more, on how I interpret the human MIND, see my post on 06.09.2019 on Admin's thread, "What is the most interesting piece of esoteric knowledge you came across?"

In conclusion;
Now, close to the end of this lifetime, I am looking forward eagerly to my passing  so that I may have the opportunity to discover how close I might have come to understanding just what I have been up to this time around, and perhaps even getting the opportunity to do some "VERIFYING"

Let Love, Light and Understanding Be.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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#14
(09-30-2019, 05:33 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: In conclusion;
Now, close to the end of this lifetime, I am looking forward eagerly to my passing  so that I may have the opportunity to discover how close I might have come to understanding just what I have been up to this time around, and perhaps even getting the opportunity to do some "VERIFYING"

Let Love, Light and Understanding Be.


Not so fast MoonBearspeaks. The "after life" can wait, we still have a lot to talk about here in the forum, and that is with you in it Smile .
A meditation is a trip to the space between the sun and earth. Where there is No days no nights, no noise, no rain, no wind, no earth force of attraction, but just peace, just light, just silence, just freedom. Would you Join me in this trip?

M. Krya
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#15
Thanks for the kind words, krya. Not much longer now, I think. Angel
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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#16
(09-30-2019, 04:38 PM)krya Wrote: Once upon a time, a christian and a Muslim died and found themselves in front of God for judgement before being reincarnated on earth. Smile

The Christian wasn't happy and said to God "Father, I don't understand, what is this Muslim guy doing here in paradise? You said: only will be saved those who know you and your son Jesus Christ, but they have Mohamed and Allah ".

The Muslim also complained and said "God father, This christian guy should have gone to hell because he thinks that Jesus the only way to salvation. Islam is the only real religion which serves you right and which is loyal to you".

Then God said : My children, you are both so stupid, like dumb dumb. Now I'm sending you back on earth to learn more. But this time, you Muslim will be Christian, and you Christian will become Muslim. Good luck and see you again soon. Smile

Only one word to describe this ...... brilliant!!
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#17
(09-30-2019, 05:33 PM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: What a subject we are into here.  Religion is simply a classroom. 

My view/understanding which, I readily accept, is debatable:

No man requires, of necessity, to follow a 'religion.' Each one can, if he awakes to the true nature of his 'being', find his own way through the confusion of life, simply by searching within his own MIND. By all means read, listen, analyse, VERIFY.

Speaking only for myself, this is where I have got to, so far.

One God - the ultimate supreme consciousness; a concept beyond human comprehension. (Well, beyond mine in this life anyway)

It may be that what some call gods (I use lower case to differentiate) are what I term angels. 
Angels are delegated aspects of the supreme consciousness, operating at various vibratory or dimensional levels of existence. These angels are charged by the supreme being with the management and oversight of their particular level of existence. (A concept which seems well accepted in the ashrams and among the holy men of the Indian sub-continent, as well as elsewhere in oriental religious philosophy, against which western religions are but a recent derivation. (See LAW OF LIFE BOOKS I & II by A D LUK)

Within each of the levels, there probably exist multiple universes, some of which may or may not support galaxies of celestial bodies. 
Within the multiple galaxies there may well be solar systems with auxilliary planets which in turn may support life-like beings, (spirit/soul) each being a delegated part of the whole, which is the supreme consciousness. (and each, in Skytiger's terminology, in an appropriate classroom for learning, comparable to what we humans experience on planet earth within the Milky Way Galaxy, and wherein we may well, in our turn, spend lifetimes)

How this cycle (perhaps in a circular time frame) originated or how it may or may not evolve, is something beyond the intellectual reasoning capability of the "human" mind in the current evolutionary state of human comprehension in planet earth's third dimensional status. (vide eternity)

For more, on how I interpret the human MIND, see my post on 06.09.2019 on Admin's thread, "What is the most interesting piece of esoteric knowledge you came across?"

In conclusion;
Now, close to the end of this lifetime, I am looking forward eagerly to my passing  so that I may have the opportunity to discover how close I might have come to understanding just what I have been up to this time around, and perhaps even getting the opportunity to do some "VERIFYING"

Let Love, Light and Understanding Be.

The 'structure' does make so much sense when I compare the hierarchy you describe to what I have learned so far in my limited time frame. I thank you for the direction you have provided Smile As you rightly say, the full picture may only be partially visible once we have shed our material senses, then again may not ..... no-one knows until they have travelled that path. I think you are and have been a path finder for many here on this particular planet.
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#18
Thank you Lizard King; nice to know someone reads what I write.

In addition to the serious post to which you refer, I would like to share a more humorous version I wrote  for a monthly class I attend. It is written with, as we say, my tongue in my cheek.

Afterlife    (after life) 
Joseph P J Westlake     aka MOON BEAR SPEAKS                                June 2019
 
          I have cheated.
I confess.
I ask not for forgiveness and absolution but only for your forbearance and understanding. You see, it just so happened I overheard two fellow students talking about this homework on “the afterlife.” At least, that’s what I thought I heard. Only later was I relieved of this misconception. Then I was with them again when they read out their first drafts; one I thought perhaps erred on the side of frivolity, the other an unexpected but thoughtful interpretation of ‘life after life.’ And I knew I had to write something in more serious and relevant vein.
          However, in writing on this subject, I acknowledge that my views have been formulated in the challenging, problematic and character-tempering fires of life’s experiences as well as the comparative comfort of reading the works of others. Thus, on this occasion; I emphasise, on this occasion, I make no claims as to either total and absolute authenticity or indisputable infallibility.
          On referring to the internet I find the word ‘afterlife’ preceded by either the definite or the indefinite article, from both of which it seems to be regarded as inseparable. However, to contextualise, the subject for this homework is explicated* as ‘afterlife’, a lower-case composite noun rather like ‘afterbirth’. However, the latter, as a composite word, carries the definition of being a physical object or material substance. As ‘after birth’, two words, there arises an abstract concept of ‘what happens after the process of birth in the animal and human kingdoms?”  Applying the same principle to ‘afterlife’ one might conceivably be propounding the question ‘what happens after a life (has ended)?’
No matter to what spiritual procedures we may have conformed prior to incarnation, we have no choice at the physical, or biological, level since, at that level, our mammalian conception is the outcome of parental activity over which we have no control. After passing through the birth canal, a painful enough process in itself, for both parties, or so I am told, we have no recollection of any 'before'.
After all: -
 
We arrive in this world unprepared,
Pink skinned, rosy cheeked, golden haired.
Without any clue
As to what we would do
If from measles and mumps we were spared.
 
It’s later we ask whence we came
To seek out our fortune and fame.
But its trouble and strife
To the end of our life.
And just what is the end game?
 
So now, near the end of the line,
I still worry ‘bout life, about time.
I do try so hard
But I’m only a bard
So just pass me one more gin and lime. 
 
@ Joseph P J Westlake
 
They’re not just amusing verses. Like any of the better poets, I hide the real meaning in between the lines.
Someone recently said to me, “What if we don’t go – don’t want to go.”  At the physical level, there is of course no 'if we don't go...' But we might ask ‘to where does our soul or spirit go…?’ After the inevitability of physical 'death' there ensues the inescapable experience of continuing existence. There is what science calls irrefutable** evidence of other dimensions. I think they had thirteen at the last count. Or was it fifteen? As to the nomenclature of the thirteen, or was it fifteen? let's not go there just now. But our 'next' level is widely known, esoterically, as the astral plane. And we have no choice! Before we left last time in order to incarnate, we were issued with a return ticket. Willy-nilly, we got a ticket to ride. ***
Starting with a biblical reference (and why not?) “In my Father’s house, there are many mansions.” Hardly a suggestion of grand dwellings of bricks and mortar. Rather, as in the case of so many New Testament statements attributed to Jesus, an allegorical allusion; in this case to various levels of vibratory existence as mentioned above.
Personally, I have encountered so many experiences that I hold, with absolute certainty, that: -
a) there is continuity of a form of life for every individual after the soul/spirit/life-force leaves the third dimensional incarnation; the physical body.
b) In this state of afterlife, the lower self, having vacated the incarnate physical vessel, the human body, re-joins the higher self. Now, in a limbo in communion with others, decisions are made as to the future progression of the individuated spirit.
c) What follows is termed re-incarnation. Only after innumerable repetitions of this experience over an incalculable uncomprehendible time period, does the individuated spirit become re-absorbed, so to speak, into the vibratory level we term God, Creator, Divine Spirit, Source; of which it has, throughout this whole series of experiences, eternally been a part.
In other words, each one of us is an indestructible extension of the divine eternal experience.  You and I are GOD.
There were times in the not too distant past when one could be burned at the stake for making such a statement. Within my lifetime at least one well-known public figure has been ostracised for using similar words.  (David Icke)
There seems to be no vast pool of knowledge of life after life; thus, I am constrained to refer the reader to the internet for detailed information on this concept as offered by a number of religious organisations. For myself, I have concluded that the perception most acceptable to me as probable is that arising in the eastern tradition and known as kamaloka. After all, it seems that no matter what religion we may profess on earth, in afterlife we all go through the same experience. This is illustrated by the following anecdote.
 
                A few centuries ago there was a holy war in the Middle East.
A Christian and a Muslim who obviously disliked each other on sight, fought ferociously on the principle that each said only his religion could save the world; only people of his religion would be eligible to go to heaven, to paradise.
          They fought all that day and into the night, until both were utterly exhausted; and they both died of their terrible wounds. Of course, they met at the Pearly Gates and each started grumbling and shouting at St Peter about the presence of the other. This went on for some time and it was getting quite noisy. St Peter, he began to lose patience with these two. Exasperated, that’s what he was. Exasperated.
          “Will you two…” He had to shout to make himself heard. “Will you two shut up. Just look at the queue; it’s half way round the world. You’re holding everybody up!”
          Of course, God heard all the rumpus and he came to the gates.
          “Hey, Pete.” Remember they’ve known each other a while.
          “Hey Pete. What’s all the fuss about?”
          And the Christian shoved St Peter out of the way.
          “God…” He was still shouting and raving. “God, how could you let sinners like Muslims into heaven? This person didn’t accept Jesus as his saviour in his lifetime.”
          And the Muslim, not to be outdone, shouldered the Christian out of his way.
          “God…” He was shouting even louder. “God, Christians don’t deserve heaven. They are too proud and they disrespect your prophet Muhammad whom you sent to show us the way.”
          God, naturally, gestured for calm and quiet while he took his time over this one. After much consideration, he said,
          “Neither of you has understood a thing in your lifetimes. Now, Muslim, I am sending you back on earth, and this time you will be a Christian. And
Christian, you will go back as a Muslim. And, both of you, TRY AND GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME, FOR CHRISSAKE!!!”
          He turned to St Peter – “Ah to be sure, to be sure, guess we’ll see ‘em both again, pretty soon.”
          He talks like that, you know, because He’s Irish. C’mon. Everybody knows God’s Irish…and a Catholic…and male.
*
Ah, kamaloka. Again, the internet has much to offer on this intriguing subject. Basically, kamaloka is seen as what happens after physical death; it is the space of the astral plane where one’s spirit goes at the time it vacates the physical vehicle; or, as we say, when one dies. One might say it is the first station down (or is it up?) the line.  It is postulated in eastern tradition that it takes some forty days for the spirit energy to irrevocably evacuate from the physical tissue. This raises an interesting thought as to difficulties that might arise in the context of the eastern funeral pyre or the western cremation, both of which customarily occur within a few days of ‘death’.
We may call it life after death, or even afterlife, but in reality, it's just one of the first steps after the death of the physical body in this third dimension. It is in kamaloka the soul starts the transformation process; a process, the duration of which is variable dependent on many factors arising during the immediate past life and other precedencies, with particular reference to what we humans, struggling in our imposed ignorance, call our Spirituality. The soul needs to free itself from the impurities of the previous life or lives so that it can leave the astral world and move on to a higher world (the mental world) from where it will get ready for its next incarnation back on earth. 
Kama means Desire and loka means Place (region). Kamaloka thus means the region of desires. Why desires? Because that region is the place visited by our astral body, which survives after our physical death. That place is where our astral body will run out its earthly desires. And those desires need to be released by the soul so that the soul can be free to move on. Some would wonder why it is called region of desires, while we also still have our mental body after death.
Well this is because kamaloka is a sub-region of the astral world (world of desires), so in that world, although one still has one’s mental body, the desire and feelings will remain the strongest influences. Normally, on earth (physical world) we have a certain level of control over our desires and feelings by the power of our mental body (our thoughts); that is to say, we have free will; but once in kamaloka we do not control the desires any more, we simply are now victims of them. So, you will witness your own just-ended-life’s desires, and there's nothing you can do to satisfy them or to avoid them.
          This description of the kamaloka concept is much abridged; it is available – along with much more on the subject – on the website My Spiritual Group.
And if one experiences a measurable time-span in each earth life and time in each phase of kamaloka, how can anyone postulate the non-existence of time. If time is an illusion on earth and they don’t have time on the other side, then all concepts of life are illusory; there is no life either here or hereafter; all is a figment of someone’s overactive imagination! Here one might refer to philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle. For more recent thinking: Ayn Rand has said; why is it "I think therefore I am" (René Descartes) when our thought capabilities happen after we begin to exist in the womb? Shouldn't it be "I am therefore I'll think"?
In the thinking and understanding of modern spiritism, since our mental body is that part of us that continues existence during afterlife, then mental faculties, or thought capabilities, happen before, and concurrent with, our conception and existence in the womb; hypotheses and even decisions concerning the future actions and activities of the newly conceived incarnate occur conceptually on the higher level. As one cycle of experience it takes time – maybe seventy to a hundred years. Perhaps not a great deal of time, but time.
Thus, I see that time is not an idle, unsubstantiated thought but, even as a circle, it is.
You can’t leave Buddhism out of all this, either.
 
There is a story about four Zen Monks who decided to meditate silently for twenty-five years.
By nightfall on the first day, the candle began to flicker and went out.
The first monk said, “Oh, no! The candle is out.”
The second monk said, “Aren’t we not supposed to talk?”
The third monk said, “Why must you two break the silence?”
The fourth monk laughed and said, “Ha! That leaves two of us who didn’t speak.”

          Not many people know this but there was a fifth monk there.
“Ah,” you ask, “What did the fifth monk say?”
We don’t know yet; it was only twenty-four years and three-hundred and sixty-four days ago. Ask me again tomorrow.
 
As I have said above, I am a fairly old man and I have dedicated the second half of this lifetime to working with Spirit around the world, as well as in many earlier lifetimes. I have ‘died’ twice and had a few other close calls with death. Thirty-five years ago, doctors predicted early confinement to a wheel chair and possibly a limited life-span. I, in consultation with my guides, decided otherwise. I am now nearer ninety than eighty years of age; I walk upright and comparatively unaided, although I do have physical health problems which are treated with medicines; I am currently involved in a spiritual movement aimed at improving life on earth. My mind seems unaffected by the passing of the years – but then, I would say that, wouldn’t I. A couple of years ago, a spiritual medium, without any question or prompt from me, turned to me and said: “The task you are working on will be completed in this lifetime.”
A lifetime dedicated to working with Spirit will ensure that that lifetime will be just as long as is necessary to carry out the task or tasks that you agreed upon with your guides before coming into incarnation. That is lifetime enough because, as sure as God made little apples, you’ll be around again before you know it. Just remember these words of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin****: -
 
You are not a Human Being seeking a Spiritual Experience
You are a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
 
An even more compelling aspect of ‘after life’ is, can we ‘earthlings’ really communicate with the dead? There is literature on the subject of prearranging post mortem rendezvous for inter-planal, or inter-dimensional, communication but, although some mediums have claimed some success, there seems to be no substantiated evidence of the phenomenon. Within our group there has been some discussion of the matter and I anticipate with much interest, nay gleeful delight, the successful outcome of any such prearrangement. Since the irrevocable passage of anno domini (is that the same as time?) suggests I am likely to be next among us to transition, (that’s the spiritualist word for you know what) I feel it is high time to make a firm decision as to places, dates and times for such fascinating, and stimulatingly thought-provoking, metaphysical exercises. There are some who claim that time does not exist in this life – it is but an illusion. I have heard many a practising psychic medium claim that ‘they don’t have time on the other side’.
So, I ask myself, that being the case, how does one arrange a trans-dimensional rendezvous for some time in the future; in the past is even more exciting; if time is an illusion. Such exercises should entail some physical manipulation or manifestation and not merely conscious telepathic or trance communicated verbal greeting between the two ‘worlds’; either of which methods I would feel justified in describing, minimally, as suspect. Then again, I ask myself is one allowed time-out from kamaloka for such recreational activities?
          I really would like to tell you more, but I can’t remember a thing from the last time I was there. Or the time before. Or the time before.
          On the other hand, if I ever did come back and remember, I could pretend I was God… and no one would ever know…except God.
And being a lapsed Catholic, I can’t help wondering what the penance for that would be, when I presented the return half of my ticket.
 

 
For further fascinating reading, type 144,000 into your search engine.
 
  
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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#19
Long back similar discussions on Religion inspired me to write a thread on MSG called PURE WATER.

https://www.myspiritualgroup.com/Thread-...Pure+water

Hasn't anyone thought of ascending to the next level ? ?

There's lot going on in the Cosmos, New Awakening has begun. Lots to see and learn beyond  beliefs.

As per my experiences, Acceptance, without an understanding/perceiving, ceases growth.

Energy is required for Creation
Energy comes from vibrations,
Vibrations come from the Sound,
Which is found in the Cosmos all around.

_/\_
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#20
(10-01-2019, 10:05 AM)MOONBEARSPEAKS Wrote: Thank you Lizard King; nice to know someone reads what I write.

In addition to the serious post to which you refer, I would like to share a more humorous version I wrote  for a monthly class I attend. It is written with, as we say, my tongue in my cheek.

Afterlife    (after life) 
Joseph P J Westlake     aka MOON BEAR SPEAKS                                June 2019
 
          I have cheated.
I confess.
I ask not for forgiveness and absolution but only for your forbearance and understanding. You see, it just so happened I overheard two fellow students talking about this homework on “the afterlife.” At least, that’s what I thought I heard. Only later was I relieved of this misconception. Then I was with them again when they read out their first drafts; one I thought perhaps erred on the side of frivolity, the other an unexpected but thoughtful interpretation of ‘life after life.’ And I knew I had to write something in more serious and relevant vein.
          However, in writing on this subject, I acknowledge that my views have been formulated in the challenging, problematic and character-tempering fires of life’s experiences as well as the comparative comfort of reading the works of others. Thus, on this occasion; I emphasise, on this occasion, I make no claims as to either total and absolute authenticity or indisputable infallibility.
          On referring to the internet I find the word ‘afterlife’ preceded by either the definite or the indefinite article, from both of which it seems to be regarded as inseparable. However, to contextualise, the subject for this homework is explicated* as ‘afterlife’, a lower-case composite noun rather like ‘afterbirth’. However, the latter, as a composite word, carries the definition of being a physical object or material substance. As ‘after birth’, two words, there arises an abstract concept of ‘what happens after the process of birth in the animal and human kingdoms?”  Applying the same principle to ‘afterlife’ one might conceivably be propounding the question ‘what happens after a life (has ended)?’
No matter to what spiritual procedures we may have conformed prior to incarnation, we have no choice at the physical, or biological, level since, at that level, our mammalian conception is the outcome of parental activity over which we have no control. After passing through the birth canal, a painful enough process in itself, for both parties, or so I am told, we have no recollection of any 'before'.
After all: -
 
We arrive in this world unprepared,
Pink skinned, rosy cheeked, golden haired.
Without any clue
As to what we would do
If from measles and mumps we were spared.
 
It’s later we ask whence we came
To seek out our fortune and fame.
But its trouble and strife
To the end of our life.
And just what is the end game?
 
So now, near the end of the line,
I still worry ‘bout life, about time.
I do try so hard
But I’m only a bard
So just pass me one more gin and lime. 
 
@ Joseph P J Westlake
 
They’re not just amusing verses. Like any of the better poets, I hide the real meaning in between the lines.
Someone recently said to me, “What if we don’t go – don’t want to go.”  At the physical level, there is of course no 'if we don't go...' But we might ask ‘to where does our soul or spirit go…?’ After the inevitability of physical 'death' there ensues the inescapable experience of continuing existence. There is what science calls irrefutable** evidence of other dimensions. I think they had thirteen at the last count. Or was it fifteen? As to the nomenclature of the thirteen, or was it fifteen? let's not go there just now. But our 'next' level is widely known, esoterically, as the astral plane. And we have no choice! Before we left last time in order to incarnate, we were issued with a return ticket. Willy-nilly, we got a ticket to ride. ***
Starting with a biblical reference (and why not?) “In my Father’s house, there are many mansions.” Hardly a suggestion of grand dwellings of bricks and mortar. Rather, as in the case of so many New Testament statements attributed to Jesus, an allegorical allusion; in this case to various levels of vibratory existence as mentioned above.
Personally, I have encountered so many experiences that I hold, with absolute certainty, that: -
a) there is continuity of a form of life for every individual after the soul/spirit/life-force leaves the third dimensional incarnation; the physical body.
b) In this state of afterlife, the lower self, having vacated the incarnate physical vessel, the human body, re-joins the higher self. Now, in a limbo in communion with others, decisions are made as to the future progression of the individuated spirit.
c) What follows is termed re-incarnation. Only after innumerable repetitions of this experience over an incalculable uncomprehendible time period, does the individuated spirit become re-absorbed, so to speak, into the vibratory level we term God, Creator, Divine Spirit, Source; of which it has, throughout this whole series of experiences, eternally been a part.
In other words, each one of us is an indestructible extension of the divine eternal experience.  You and I are GOD.
There were times in the not too distant past when one could be burned at the stake for making such a statement. Within my lifetime at least one well-known public figure has been ostracised for using similar words.  (David Icke)
There seems to be no vast pool of knowledge of life after life; thus, I am constrained to refer the reader to the internet for detailed information on this concept as offered by a number of religious organisations. For myself, I have concluded that the perception most acceptable to me as probable is that arising in the eastern tradition and known as kamaloka. After all, it seems that no matter what religion we may profess on earth, in afterlife we all go through the same experience. This is illustrated by the following anecdote.
 
                A few centuries ago there was a holy war in the Middle East.
A Christian and a Muslim who obviously disliked each other on sight, fought ferociously on the principle that each said only his religion could save the world; only people of his religion would be eligible to go to heaven, to paradise.
          They fought all that day and into the night, until both were utterly exhausted; and they both died of their terrible wounds. Of course, they met at the Pearly Gates and each started grumbling and shouting at St Peter about the presence of the other. This went on for some time and it was getting quite noisy. St Peter, he began to lose patience with these two. Exasperated, that’s what he was. Exasperated.
          “Will you two…” He had to shout to make himself heard. “Will you two shut up. Just look at the queue; it’s half way round the world. You’re holding everybody up!”
          Of course, God heard all the rumpus and he came to the gates.
          “Hey, Pete.” Remember they’ve known each other a while.
          “Hey Pete. What’s all the fuss about?”
          And the Christian shoved St Peter out of the way.
          “God…” He was still shouting and raving. “God, how could you let sinners like Muslims into heaven? This person didn’t accept Jesus as his saviour in his lifetime.”
          And the Muslim, not to be outdone, shouldered the Christian out of his way.
          “God…” He was shouting even louder. “God, Christians don’t deserve heaven. They are too proud and they disrespect your prophet Muhammad whom you sent to show us the way.”
          God, naturally, gestured for calm and quiet while he took his time over this one. After much consideration, he said,
          “Neither of you has understood a thing in your lifetimes. Now, Muslim, I am sending you back on earth, and this time you will be a Christian. And
Christian, you will go back as a Muslim. And, both of you, TRY AND GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME, FOR CHRISSAKE!!!”
          He turned to St Peter – “Ah to be sure, to be sure, guess we’ll see ‘em both again, pretty soon.”
          He talks like that, you know, because He’s Irish. C’mon. Everybody knows God’s Irish…and a Catholic…and male.
*
Ah, kamaloka. Again, the internet has much to offer on this intriguing subject. Basically, kamaloka is seen as what happens after physical death; it is the space of the astral plane where one’s spirit goes at the time it vacates the physical vehicle; or, as we say, when one dies. One might say it is the first station down (or is it up?) the line.  It is postulated in eastern tradition that it takes some forty days for the spirit energy to irrevocably evacuate from the physical tissue. This raises an interesting thought as to difficulties that might arise in the context of the eastern funeral pyre or the western cremation, both of which customarily occur within a few days of ‘death’.
We may call it life after death, or even afterlife, but in reality, it's just one of the first steps after the death of the physical body in this third dimension. It is in kamaloka the soul starts the transformation process; a process, the duration of which is variable dependent on many factors arising during the immediate past life and other precedencies, with particular reference to what we humans, struggling in our imposed ignorance, call our Spirituality. The soul needs to free itself from the impurities of the previous life or lives so that it can leave the astral world and move on to a higher world (the mental world) from where it will get ready for its next incarnation back on earth. 
Kama means Desire and loka means Place (region). Kamaloka thus means the region of desires. Why desires? Because that region is the place visited by our astral body, which survives after our physical death. That place is where our astral body will run out its earthly desires. And those desires need to be released by the soul so that the soul can be free to move on. Some would wonder why it is called region of desires, while we also still have our mental body after death.
Well this is because kamaloka is a sub-region of the astral world (world of desires), so in that world, although one still has one’s mental body, the desire and feelings will remain the strongest influences. Normally, on earth (physical world) we have a certain level of control over our desires and feelings by the power of our mental body (our thoughts); that is to say, we have free will; but once in kamaloka we do not control the desires any more, we simply are now victims of them. So, you will witness your own just-ended-life’s desires, and there's nothing you can do to satisfy them or to avoid them.
          This description of the kamaloka concept is much abridged; it is available – along with much more on the subject – on the website My Spiritual Group.
And if one experiences a measurable time-span in each earth life and time in each phase of kamaloka, how can anyone postulate the non-existence of time. If time is an illusion on earth and they don’t have time on the other side, then all concepts of life are illusory; there is no life either here or hereafter; all is a figment of someone’s overactive imagination! Here one might refer to philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle. For more recent thinking: Ayn Rand has said; why is it "I think therefore I am" (René Descartes) when our thought capabilities happen after we begin to exist in the womb? Shouldn't it be "I am therefore I'll think"?
In the thinking and understanding of modern spiritism, since our mental body is that part of us that continues existence during afterlife, then mental faculties, or thought capabilities, happen before, and concurrent with, our conception and existence in the womb; hypotheses and even decisions concerning the future actions and activities of the newly conceived incarnate occur conceptually on the higher level. As one cycle of experience it takes time – maybe seventy to a hundred years. Perhaps not a great deal of time, but time.
Thus, I see that time is not an idle, unsubstantiated thought but, even as a circle, it is.
You can’t leave Buddhism out of all this, either.
 
There is a story about four Zen Monks who decided to meditate silently for twenty-five years.
By nightfall on the first day, the candle began to flicker and went out.
The first monk said, “Oh, no! The candle is out.”
The second monk said, “Aren’t we not supposed to talk?”
The third monk said, “Why must you two break the silence?”
The fourth monk laughed and said, “Ha! That leaves two of us who didn’t speak.”

          Not many people know this but there was a fifth monk there.
“Ah,” you ask, “What did the fifth monk say?”
We don’t know yet; it was only twenty-four years and three-hundred and sixty-four days ago. Ask me again tomorrow.
 
As I have said above, I am a fairly old man and I have dedicated the second half of this lifetime to working with Spirit around the world, as well as in many earlier lifetimes. I have ‘died’ twice and had a few other close calls with death. Thirty-five years ago, doctors predicted early confinement to a wheel chair and possibly a limited life-span. I, in consultation with my guides, decided otherwise. I am now nearer ninety than eighty years of age; I walk upright and comparatively unaided, although I do have physical health problems which are treated with medicines; I am currently involved in a spiritual movement aimed at improving life on earth. My mind seems unaffected by the passing of the years – but then, I would say that, wouldn’t I. A couple of years ago, a spiritual medium, without any question or prompt from me, turned to me and said: “The task you are working on will be completed in this lifetime.”
A lifetime dedicated to working with Spirit will ensure that that lifetime will be just as long as is necessary to carry out the task or tasks that you agreed upon with your guides before coming into incarnation. That is lifetime enough because, as sure as God made little apples, you’ll be around again before you know it. Just remember these words of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin****: -
 
You are not a Human Being seeking a Spiritual Experience
You are a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
 
An even more compelling aspect of ‘after life’ is, can we ‘earthlings’ really communicate with the dead? There is literature on the subject of prearranging post mortem rendezvous for inter-planal, or inter-dimensional, communication but, although some mediums have claimed some success, there seems to be no substantiated evidence of the phenomenon. Within our group there has been some discussion of the matter and I anticipate with much interest, nay gleeful delight, the successful outcome of any such prearrangement. Since the irrevocable passage of anno domini (is that the same as time?) suggests I am likely to be next among us to transition, (that’s the spiritualist word for you know what) I feel it is high time to make a firm decision as to places, dates and times for such fascinating, and stimulatingly thought-provoking, metaphysical exercises. There are some who claim that time does not exist in this life – it is but an illusion. I have heard many a practising psychic medium claim that ‘they don’t have time on the other side’.
So, I ask myself, that being the case, how does one arrange a trans-dimensional rendezvous for some time in the future; in the past is even more exciting; if time is an illusion. Such exercises should entail some physical manipulation or manifestation and not merely conscious telepathic or trance communicated verbal greeting between the two ‘worlds’; either of which methods I would feel justified in describing, minimally, as suspect. Then again, I ask myself is one allowed time-out from kamaloka for such recreational activities?
          I really would like to tell you more, but I can’t remember a thing from the last time I was there. Or the time before. Or the time before.
          On the other hand, if I ever did come back and remember, I could pretend I was God… and no one would ever know…except God.
And being a lapsed Catholic, I can’t help wondering what the penance for that would be, when I presented the return half of my ticket.
 

 
For further fascinating reading, type 144,000 into your search engine.
 
  

I am amazed by the depth of the knowledge you presented in your 'writing' above. It is so easy sometime to give up half way through the message when the writing becomes difficult enough to force you to think and work for the 'understanding' of what the words convey. I am extremely glad I did not stop but continued the reading Smile  Kamaloka sounds very intriguing and I think I may be occupied with my search into the subject matter for some time. As I said in a earlier post, this existence is very much a illusion. All of this existence and all planes of existence going back to the ALL is composed of frequencies that our human minds have been programmed, via a combination of our dna and social upbringing, to interpret as specific objects or ideas or visions. Although this is where the hermetic paradox rears it's head.... Can we then live this life as a illusion ? Forever changing the frequencies around for anything we do not perceive as truth ?  If we start doing this then we would be stuck in a endless loop never getting to a level where we are able to progress. The paradox then is that we know this world to be a illusion but we have to live and experience this place as real as can be...... Confusing but also so clear ... Smile.   Your thoughts ?  Then just a last word as to 'desire', love this word therefore felt I had to say something with regards to this. For real magick to work, you don't just 'need' something, you have to 'desire' it, evokes much more powerful energy than just 'need'. Whenever asking for anything, strong emotion have to be present, as in 'desire', to carry the intention to the highest levels of the universe.
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